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The date is the 12th of April 2024 and I'm going to sit down and speak with Harriet and Andy Harris today, the time it's 1714 and we are going to begin the interview now. Please. Can you state your name and place of birth? I'm Andy Harris on. I was born in Edinburgh. I'm Harriet Harris on Guy was also born in Edinburgh. Could you please state your birth dates? I was born on the fifth of November 1962 on I was born on the first of me 1963. Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood and what your home life was like? and my parents were both teachers. my mother taught English. My father taught Spanish Portuguese, but French on was assistant head teacher at Harry. It's just along the road and on, and I grew up in Edinburgh, went to Gillespie's, which is just up the road from the Kings Theatre. At Tall Cross on, we used to go to the Kings Theatre on school trips. My father originally came from London on. He was in the navy. He met my mother. at a dance in Edinburgh on they got married on. My mum was hoping to be a gymnast or swimmer on. She was easy to Scotland champion for a while. my first experience. Probably going to the theatre would be with school trips or with the Cubs coming to see panto on Kang Chul. and the first few things that I saw at the Kings. My parents used to take me to the Doyle. A cart to the Savoy operas. Gilbert Sullivan s. So I think the first one was the MMA Kado when I was about seven and on and we saw all of them. You know, Pirates of Penzance, H M s pinafore. The doily cart used to come regularly in November for two or three weeks. Every year on that was very useful because my birthday's in November. So my parents didn't have to have hundreds of kids to the house. They used to take me instead to the Kings to see a Gilbert and Sullivan instead from school from Gillespie's. We were taken to see Scottish operate in the Merry Widow, which my sister always called the many window on Dyken still picture it to the state. With that right up in the gods, we've been listening to the music in class. This would be primary school, so I'd be about, I don't know, 10 maybe on. I can still picture all the sets. So this day, you know, I've never seen it since. But I remember there was Act one was set in some sort of London or or European club on downstage on the right, it had one of these big sofas where everybody sits back to back a big circular sofa. on, it was red. And then there were steps up T o be stage left up at the back. And then in the second act, it moved off to some magical forest or palace garden or something on. Then, in the third act, it came back into something fairly similar to the first act. But a slight sort of change on I can still visualise it. I still know the music on Guy just absolutely loved it. Gillespie's in those days was all girls at the primary school and it didn't go co educational until I went into secondary school way have, I think, the second year there were boys, there were only boys in the first two years. At that point, my sister, who is older than me, there were never any boys in her year and so it was quite I wouldn't say middle class, but probably slightly middle class school, and it's the school of Miss Jean Brodie. it's the School of Yes, slightly, Morningside People slightly that we in planed on Di Dio. Yeah, I can remember being taken to fairly shall us a slightly upmarket things. We never went to the pit of my well. I would say entirely different for myself. It was only by sea school trips going out to sea A panto where you would come in the afternoon. In those days, we didn't have the minibuses that took us about. It was You're going onto the bus and you all had to make sure that you had your your your group with you because you weren't allowed to be separated. The teachers knew exactly who had to sit beside who when you got there. which is probably just a swell Some of the things we're about to go on. on. It was just a fabulous time out. The first time you go win. Probably the most memorable thing is the number of flights of stairs you had to climb to get up to the very chords and you weren't allowed in the front door. You had to go in the side entrance. That's right. We were separated from you know, if you were going to the Grand Circle, you were really posh. nearly always the upper circle. in Mikey, sometimes the family circle as well, which in those days had read flock wallpaper. I distinctly remember. It's so where the family circle is upstairs at the top. it's that well before they've demolished it had that sort of top coloured beige coloured walls and things. But when I was little, I specifically remember that it had red flock wallpaper up there when they refurbished it into to remember being hugely disappointed because it wasn't nearly as warm and rich and interesting as it was. I think what would take the attention away from more? I don't notice things like this quite as much as it's Harriet does, but It was what was happening on stage that that was where you suddenly thought, How did they do that? changing so quickly from one scene to another that when your brand new and going to see your first show. it was just absolutely magical. in those days, it was the Ricky full. era. although we did have Terry Scott who came up a to one point, I did see that one because he came on looking absolutely huge and then took off about 40 years of tools. in that, literally. Just walking behind the screen and walking out on here completely changed. And you thought, No, you can't do that. You have to remember a swell that. We're not that old, but I don't know about you, but we certainly didn't have colour television until into the seventies. We went to the theatre. Everything was in colour on. That was amazing because we were used to seeing it in black and white. Any kind of drama was That was on. The television was black and white. So the colour, the lighting booth, three dimensionality of everything was just so stunning on overwhelming, you know? I mean, it was just so exciting. And you dressed up. Yes, you did. If you went with school school uniform, all the nice clothes, best behaviour sometimes. on with the Cubs and Scopes. You always had to go in your uniform when you went for that as well. But we were a bit mawr, shall we say, raucous? there, there could be points where you get to the lovey dovey bits and panto. kids our age just we're not going for that. So that's when the Smarties came out of the box of we're getting thrown from the gods right the way down. that's a long way down. Actually, that was also in the days when when pantomimes tended to stick to the storey, where is now They build a lot of stuff and the storey is really a secondary to the individual sort of act within it. And it is it was one of one of the things that panto, a kind of grew out of. that school. I was very oval involved. Mawr in the drama side. and that's when the play's started coming in. because lots of people would say, Why do you want to go and see a play? Their boring, but strangely enough to one that really got me was working. A secondary school at Craig MT. Way had a brilliant drama department there who were keen to put on a zzz, much as it possibly could on one of the most amazing ones was it was a woman of Troy. On it was all the hurt to 18 months to rehearse and get the troupe together so that you could basically close your eyes on. Everybody in the cast would take a step forward exactly the same time. They just knew where everybody else was. It was That was a special moment on the minute that came through, and we were given a lot of support to input into what was going to be happening, which was fabulous, really. Fact. Great Mount was quite progressive. It was It was a modern school was built new around the time that you went. Wasn't it on? They were given the option of having a theatre or a swimming pool, and they thought, we can use the local baths. We're going to have a theatre, which was hugely unusual in the in the time, and the school's been demolished and rebuilt again since then. I don't think they have a theatre there, but they did, but they were given the choice, and that was actually quite a quite something to choose to have a theatre over a swimming pool and it was a multi functional space. It basically was. The black box, very high ceilings on it had a large wooden blocks that would put into place on laterally. When money became available, started using steel take. which was supposedly easier to use, but ah, lot heavier. But I mean, it was all things like that. That sort of brought you back and thought, I want to Seymour want to Seymour on site Feli And in the time that way we were growing up and going to the theatre. The ticket prices weren't all that bad And even the fringe French was 25 p a ticket. 35 p if you were lucky if you were unlucky. And you could see, you know, five or six years and a day, Ondo No worry about, you know? I mean, it was just amazing. So but But going to the king's was a real special occasion. I remember it was a real party frog job, you know? I mean, you really dressed up if in the evenings. But then my mother was was, was, was right till the day she died hugely into classical music. I mean, that's what she loves, So I went to other operas as well. One I really remember was Richard Stress to Rosenkavalier, which they had the full orchestra pit out. I mean, there must have been 100 people in the orchestra was huge, and it builds the theatre. It's long upper it, but it's beautiful on visually, it's it's very funny. There's a girl playing the leading man all the way through. So, like a pantomime, so it's a breach is part. So there's no leading man in a ttle, so the poor tenor gets one song and that's it. on, but it's it's beautiful. And at the end of the three women, So there's a duchess on A for a contest. I think she is on her young lover on his beautiful girl. On this three of them, the voices just come together at the end of this incredible piece of music on. Unfortunately, much as I loved it, I was in the seat behind the conductor S O. I didn't find, you know, myself having to lean from one side, which must have been very distracting for the person behind me as well, even though I was quite small in the day and I was having to sort of lean round and try and see what was going on. But again, it's a hugely dramatic piece. It's It's at the end. There's a scene in the in where the sort of playing tricks So they've got portrait's that we've and doors that bang and, you know, it was very good on Guy just loved it. I mean, I can't imagine Children today would sit through a four hour upper up. But, you know, I just it was just overwhelmingly beautiful. on been way saw plays and things as well What? We tended to go to the Lyceum for them on. but Valley. Yeah, we both. In fact, we both discovered that we both seen Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet thing. Kings, which must have been difficult because of the floor they must. They must have built it up. I think the front would be Scottish Bali on day. It's a fabulous ballet because the boys do all the work. It's not a girlie girlie, you know. It's not one where the boys were just there to present the ladies, the lady. The boys were actually doing most of the work. They're fencing and sword fighting and the market stalls being knocked over. And it's it's fabulous on again. The music's terrific, even though The Apprentice have pitched it. But it's much, much more than that. Let's yeah, I mean, musicals have played large parts, but as I say, it was Mawr, the drama sides that I sort of started in. on again. It was the Lyceum use theatre. When they first started, it went along to lab, which was only went to the Lyceum because there isn't one of the kings or wasn't one of the and also the life seems a producing house, which the king's wasn't. but that was that was quite an experience. from that. I did actually get a walk on. a silent, non speaking part for their Centenary production. On it was Sir Henry Irving the night from nowhere. very long play, but the best thing about it was that was very young, newly starting out Samantha Bond playing the female lead. Yeah, we've seen quite a few famous people over the years. I mean, they're the famous Scottish ones, you know, like obviously from the pantomimes of the King's like on Degree and Grant starting whatever. There's the previous generation of them who were Ricky Full Cymbalta car. Jack Milroy. trying to think who else? you look back at the whole slab. Bois. Truly? Yes, All of them. so that generation here. I mean, we're amazing. And I Russell Hunter. I mean, people like that and Donna McLean and you would see them. one week across various theatres and inverse. So they'd be doing panto one week or playing a Glasgow drunk one week and then playing the pope in something you know, the following week or, you know, I mean, it was just amazing what they could do on the way they changed. So it was. Yeah, it was exciting times. I mean, looking back over the number of shows that collectively between us, we've seen you couldn't possibly pick out the best one of all, the most favourite because there's something new comes along all the time with the advances in technology and also the quality of some of the actors and the lighting. I mean, the actual technology is it has developed usually. You know what? I'm sure you know the doily cart. We're terribly exciting when John Reed Blessing was playing all the leading baritone roles, including the young lovers, when he must have been in his fifties or sixties, by that point at least, But beautiful, you know? I mean, didn't Didn't matter. You didn't notice something. The plaster off stage makeup on whatever. But yeah, I mean, just so many. And then, as I said that as the technology has improved, there's been things we've just gone. because, I mean, I used to do lighting in the days when you pushed feeders up down long before it became computerised on bond. I did wardrobe and I did a little backstage stage growing and stuff. In fact, about that. The licence. When Mark Boehner made his professional well his amateur debut, his first ever time on stage, I was his dresser. so he was in. the death of a salesman. So he was playing on old character and his younger self. So basically, every time he came off stage, I ripped his clothes off and threw him back on in Something else on here we are gonna see here. We're here. We are so many, you know, 30 30 40 years later, he's hit the big time, you know, which is fantastic. so I mean, we knew right from the start that this was one to watch was amazing, but Yeah, we've We've done a lot in theatre. I did plays at school. I did stuff fringe with loads of people. But we've always come back. I mean, I've got a list here of 2030 40 productions that we've seen at the King's across all of your role risk from musicals to stand up comedy to operate. when I think about the Gilbert and Sullivan has always been a big part because it was actually my music teacher from school. Who was the musical director David Lyle. on. Alan Borthwick, who would do the direction. now it's so turned out that I was doing an open university course on Alan Borthwick Woz, my massive tutor for foundation mathematics with the Open University on David Lyle was the teachers at school and they said we saw you doing that. That show you want to come along and audition. So I went along on auditioned and that was me into the G and s on. So McAda Oh. Island Sea Pirates pirates trial by jury Utopia Limited, one of the very few to play the lifeguard in Utopia. And it has one of the steepest, highest sets I've never had to work on. I didn't feel safe. They built the built a huge, very steep ramp. That must have been about what went in six or something up on the stage on these guys had marched down it. So yes, way started off trying to do and think, and they were told it shaking too much. Keep the step out so so that was interesting on fact thinking about the G and s side as well. in the Festival Theatre. they did the bravado McAdam. which was a scratched 24 hour period of rehearsal where they put on performance to the public. for charity in need of eight Waverly Trust They started on the Friday night performed it on the Saturday night. a track. All try to remember the names now. I've got the programme for that somewhere as well, but I was meant to be. male chorus. But when I got there said, We're really going to need somebody to take control Anybody done any directing So I put my hand up and that was it. Rex again, you assistant director for for the one. So I was like, given the girl's chorus for their opening number. Just sort out something for them to do. and make them look nice. which is you know what we did. on the professionals. Kate cops. Stick certainly was one of them. on the They were rehearsing right the way through the night, whereas we were sent home at midnight to go and get some rest to be back at nine o'clock the following morning. But it was It was a manic 24 hours trying to get a lot of sorted. The one you didn't do that, but we saw was the Godel ears, which they're doing this year, so I've told me this Storey already tell her again for the tape. Is that and it wasn't in the gondolier is that year because I was seven months have one fact it was nine months pregnant. on. Our son was born about a week after the gondolier is, but we went to support the cast. So we went to the dress rehearsal on I couldn't get comfortable, so I was pacing up and down the grand circle. on, Everything was fine, The music was going and everything was grand. And every time the music stopped, a tiny little fist or foot in my tummy started banging, going glum. It's going quiet. What's happening? on that little boy is now a professional lighting designer himself, having got the bug from his parents on. we'll be fair to him. He found himself. He did find it. Way took into things and he got the bug. But he did. He went after he left school. He went to Edinburgh College to do Theo Basic Theatre practise national certificate on. Then he went on to do the higher national certificate There on. He was supposed to go out on a placement on the college hadn't quite got round to organising it. Now our son Jack had just been involved in helping with the gang show at the Kings. So he rang Tony the stage manager and said, Anything going that I could do my placement for? And Tony said If you'd run me yesterday, I'd have said no. If you'd run me tomorrow I probably have said no, but as it is, I actually got somebody who's just dropped out. Would you like to come and help crew? So he was the only person on the course that, instead of getting a two week placement, got an eight week placement doing Snow White and the seven dwarves at the King's, for which he was paid on. The others were absolutely furious. and he absolutely loved it. He still talks about when I did panto with With Alan and Grant and Andy Lovely Andie. grant still keeps in contact contact to time through through Facebook and things they still they still keep in touch. but he had an absolute ball. He loved it, and they had all sorts of silly things that they did on stage. They had that year. They had a giant T rex dinosaur on stage from Twins FX. Absolutely enormous. And he was involved in operating that on. There was one point in the pantomime where Alan were supposed to bang into the cloth that the scenery cloth behind him. on it would fall as if by accident. on git would catch the stage crew on stage. So Tony and all of them were on stage, and every night they be doing something different. So they might be having a bedtime storey. And they're all sitting there around Tony with their thumbs in their mouths. Well, Tony's reading them a storey or they might be doing some yoga or something on. They had silly little things that they did on on this particular night at Jack's idea, he said. All that happened was the stage was empty and Alan was a bit thrown on. Then this huge banner was flown down. That just said, taken Rex for walkies. if you need us, get the boys and girls to shout. and that was the stage crew, and Alan had no idea this was going to happen. on it practically brought the house day. So Jack now has a seat in the Kings Theatre, which is seat K eight in the struggles on. On the back of it, it just says Jack Harris, and then in quotation marks, it says taken Rex for walkies on Under That it says Panto, 2016. and he really wanted to seek canine because he's a great doctor who found So we really wanted canine. But there is no canine in the King's, so it's seat Kate. so yes. So the theatre has gone down through the family. This excitement and enthusiasm and just general love of it, it is moved on here. I think. I can remember most about when you're actually backstage performing. You know exactly where you are in the theatre by this smells that you were getting. you know? You know when you're backstage. you're sort of waiting, and you could get this faint aroma outside the dressing rooms of toilets, especially before the performance. Each theatre has its own smell, but there's a definite theatre. Smelt was Yeah, and you could tell when you were you were moving down the level on in the seating areas because in in the past, people were allowed to smoke in the theatre. That was the other thing, but you could go further up on, but you could tell by the shabby or the seats just and how narrow they were close together. was. It was quite a thing and then trying to find your way If you ever had to make a front of house appearance. No, in a box. One of the nice blast freezer with side does they call them. But if you ever have to go on enter through the back of the auditorium, it was so easy to get lost. because their doors behind the public doors out there. So if the public doors are open, people don't realise that they're if you have to close that door and there's another door behind it, and then you go through that way to get through the bag. on it is. It's very complicated and also how some of them I don't know how much work is getting done on the backstage side. Whatever. But, you know, I just remember all the pipes being sort of like slightly drippy a point, depending on the time of year you were performing their on bond, you had sort of dampness in some areas. on. I only ever had to go down into the pit once. on that just smell incredibly musty. but my sister, I was telling her we were going to do this and she swears, and she's probably right that at some point she was a player and she will. she played for the Edinburgh School Secondary Schools Orchestra, and she says that she played in the Kings Theatre for the Queen. now This must have been 19 seventies. She would have been at school, so it can't have been here because the Festival Theatre, because the Festival theatre was the Empire Bingo Hall at that point. So it must have been the Kings Theatre. And she said it was incredible because there were about 200 kids, plus all their instruments, plus whatever squashed under the stage. so, Yeah, I know. So she says No, she says she also played. She's playing the orchestra, I think, for a couple of people, musicals and things. And she says, so frustrating because you can't see what's happening on stage that the audience are old, sort of chuckling away. You have no concept of why. Because they never even see it. It rehearsals, you know, they just that's that. so yeah. comedy wise, We have seen the best one ever, Peter. Just enough. did a one man show with the stool. a carpet on a standard lamp on stage and nothing else on. We were helpless with laughter. He was so funny, people were sort of begging him to just give them opposed to breathe. It was incredible. I can't even remember what it was all about. He just has one of those faces that that was so more while on DS so expressive on his storeys were hilarious. There was one I remember about him being told when he was in the Army. that he was to play. They were on an exercise, and he was to be the Germans, you know, and his troupe were to be the Germans on three, Officer. saying that they they went off tangent did something that they shouldn't have done on. Then, when they were finally caught by the officer. they were reprimanded for going off piece, two news going. But that's what would happen in this situation. Thea Enemy don't know the script, but he also got scolded because he refused to speak English. He spoke German the whole time, and they said, But you mustn't speak German And he said, Do you expect the Germans to speak English? You know, So he got a terrible telling off, but I mean, he told it, and it was absolutely, achingly funny. I mean, the way I tell it, it's not, but he was just amazing and he spoke on stage for a good three hours. way. We're helpless, absolutely helpless. There have been a few times for we've been helpless at the king's. there. There was wonderful. there was the wonderful RSC production with Summer Night's dream was the punk version on by the time you got to the Promise and Thursby. play within the play. you couldn't breathe honestly, it was just hilarious. The cast were stunning. Often when you see a Midsummer Night's dream, either the rude mechanicals air really funny or the mortals are really funny or the fairies air really funny. Or there is one week group amongst the three. Not with this one. It was hilarious. I mean, it was David Trouten playing bottom. Richard McCabe playing the funniest puck I've ever seen. He was dressed like a punk, just William. So he was in a schoolboy blazer with his hearing Bunches on a little Bali to two around his waist and little pointed ears. And he comes on reading the penguin version of A Midsummer Night's Dream. And then he looks at it. So he's starting off, you know, through the forest Have I gone? And he just looks at The book turns into the front. Looks at it is if this is rubbish, throws it into the audience and then carries on. The fairies were all in Doc Martens on Bali, two twos with big 0.8 years on at one point, but things one of the varia fairies on her ear. you know, he just goes like that. Just turns ahead. Round of things are on the year. The next time she comes on, she's got a huge sticking plaster on her point here, and the details in the sets were phenomenal. Lover Tiny little mushroom is growing under trees. There were it was just amazing. And it was so funny. There was also the Lady killers where they were having a few problems with the set, but they had obviously, it happened to them so many times they knew So basically they just came out of character. But it's happened before now we'll just going to do a little dance for you. This'll was Michele Dotrice? Yes. Tap dance on. Uh, they just went. Just talk amongst yourselves. We'll be back in a minute. It's just it was just one bit of the set that was supposed to swing out, I think, to form a little sort of subset, and it got stuck on DU. The other one I seem to remember is, Well, what's sunshine on Leath, where the fridge doors kept lying open because of the rake on stage, They couldn't keep them shut, so some people had to go and stand and lean against them so that the light didn't come on again. on one of the Edinburgh Cos there was a wonderful review in the in the Scotsman. I think it was. I think it was a production of my fair lady that said they did a wonderful and extremely slick scene change from Scene 12, Scene three on how to stop the show. on go back because this has happened. But then that happened here with the produce is where the curtain came down in the middle of one of us. One middle of Act one. There's a lovely bit in the producers where the the chap goes back through the whole storey of the show. So he does this reprieve. So which is amazing of everything that's happened so far in the storey on right In the beginning, he said. Step one, Don't bring the curtain down in the middle of Lackland Step todo It was just so funny. so, yeah, there's been some some. Some things have been less good than others. We have seen one particularly bad ache born in the last few years, which was very, very dated. The play. It would have been very funny in the seventies. It was not funny about the time we got here on the cast were doing their best, but it was really heavy going. Wasn't the casts fault? It was just The script was so out of date at the jokes. Just weren't funny anymore. 10 times table with the name of the place. names, Yes. but the one that I have seen originally was. it was through the woman in black. on. It came to the king's on bond hottie, and I went to it on Bond. You could swear that the temperature was dropping in the theatre the whole time. And apparently they do. They put the air conditioning on enduring the course It may well have been. completely aware of something that you shouldn't have been aware of as the show was going on just of being this because it's very, very. on. It was, yeah, with screams when people touch door handles and things were just You know, I suspect the bird of you slightly damp seeds. but yeah, I mean, it's mainly please, I think that we've seen more recently. Yeah. well, that's that's probably because the friends deals. on, it's It's the reason why we became the sort of parts that they're called leading trading and friends. we've seen because we've saved so much money by being able to take that. But there again, we've seen a huge range of things that you wouldn't normally take a punt on because they're so expensive. Where is if you get that chance to come and see something on? You think, Well, that's not too bad. but for some of the big shows, now it's going on. Also think a lot of the big shows transferring are going into the wrong size theatre. The Kings Theatre is just. It gives you a big hug when you come in. It's the right shape, right shape. It's the right size. The sight lines are great for seeing whatever you're sitting art from Family Circle, which is no more. So, yes, I'm please hope they give us a mortal recruitment. The uppers perk up because it's it's very, very painful up there because it's been very wider seats. I'm sure the generation wider now. Yes, but But we have seen some things that probably wouldn't necessarily have gone to see. but Vulcan seven. That was a strange one, Yes. Yeah, I mean. We've seen Vulcan seven. You've seen Shirley Valentine was the art That was superb with Nigel. Hey, vers Denis Lawson on Steven Tomkins. I've never seen anybody have a breakdown at one stage that was so funny on so moving at the same time. a Stephen Thomas, and he's got this speech in the middle, which goes on for about, I Don't know, but 20 minutes when he's explaining about the bad days, had how everything is going wrong in his life until it becomes it starts off almost like a toys out of the prime hissy fit, and then it sort of becomes a complete breakdown. But to start with, it's just this really sort of a 50 year old having a two year old tantrum, you know? I mean, it's very funny, but it's an amazingly well written play. Fabulous on the other one, of course, is is David Hag's pressure, which was just incredible. for it. For an Englishman to come and do in Edinburgh Accent in Edinburgh is very brave when he has written it himself on, directed and directed on I thought I don't know what this is going to be like and it was breathtaking, absolutely breathtaking. I would have gone and seen it, but again and again, very strong. Castell round. You know, it was a very well balanced cast. Yeah, it's mainly three, isn't it? The one playing Eisenhower and the girl who's there? It's just a country on the chap who's predicting the weather forecast for the D Day landings. And I'm saying, No, you cannot go on fifth on the third of Do you have to wait till the fourth of whatever it was, you know, it's the fifth and the sixth on hold to get back and and it was just amazing on all the time. His is his wife having a baby or something. But the whole building is in lock down here because it's all he can get there. on. But it was such a wonderful play. Wonderful, wonderful play. And I think it got a standing ovation at the end, which is unusual in a play. It's no, it's not unusual in a musical these days, but for a play. absolutely stunning, so I mean, that one was good. do you think the intimacy of the size of the king's makes it stand out from other venues in Edinburgh? the Lyceum again. Also small. It's fine. The playhouse on the Festival Theatre here. They're huge barns. They were built. This cinemas? Well, there's not so much or or musicals. You know, when everything was sort of broad and whatever, but I find yeah, the distance from the stage here at the festival Theatre. Even in the upper circle, you're a long way away. the king's much more intimate and on the acoustics. Very good. I mean, I watched an Agatha Christie potboiler thing and the week before the festival, you know, the dead week, and they used to bring some sort of Agatha Christie's and things in for people to see on. I was in the very, very back seat of the family circle where there's only one or two in the road. Can't remember on I could hear everything. that's that's the other thing, I suppose, is when we first started going a lot with the actual plays. we're know amplified. It was the music of the operators. Weren't apple ified people saying? But they weren't miked? Yeah, they could fill those theatres with out. of sheer technique, you know? I mean, and you could hear a whisper at the back, but Matthew Kelly in the dresser. a swell that way. Didn't see it with Julian. Clearly, he was there on his understudy. Whoever he was was absolutely fantastic. And he just stepped in that, but yeah, I mean, it's a touring company, so they would have had an understudy anyway. And you know what we did? One performance a week generally anyway, was very Yeah, so that was That was terrific. We've seen Musical's going back. I'm looking here. Seven brides for seven brothers. That was wonderful. It was very funny. They'd written some new songs that aren't in the film. I think I saw it three times when it was when it was here, because just loved it. try to think like Jesus Christ Superstar was actually done in the Kings, and it was the original staging of it from appeared in London. often when shows come up from London, the only bring half the scenery and they don't bring, you know, they say over. We'll put in a Scottish person instead of big league role. And you think No, you know, we can see the Scottish people any time. We'd quite like to have the big London star come up. You know, it's the same with the Royal Shakespeare Company. It was They used to come here. Now they just sort of send a production and you watch it, you know, on the National Theatre Live or RSD live or whatever, which is lovely. But it's not the same as seeing it. Actually, physically, you know the broadcast ones. Yes, there are broadcast version of the stage play, but you can't see what's going on off camera, so to speak. So there may be something else happening in that scene. that would normally draw your attention. But you it's been edited for you, so you can't see that. I know only know only that it's the atmosphere. It's that buzz that you can pick up in the audience. Yeah, it's going. it has to be live. It's not. It's just yeah, I mean, otherwise, you might as well go to the cinema, you know? I mean Yes, it's nice to see them, but all these big companies used to tour, and they used to come here with the original chemist, and they just don't seem to do that anymore. I mean, just the Chitty Bang Bang originally opened in London, and I think it was Michael Ball or somebody who was playing the lead. And then it comes to Edinburgh. We get John McFadden, who is lovely, but we can see Joma problem any time. we don't get to see the big stars on when they brought The Lion King, I think the only brought half the set the same with Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. You know, they don't bring the whole thing, so we don't get the full experience that they have. Well, they didn't have the elevating stage kind of required. They don't have the hydraulics in some cases, but But, yes, that's a shame. I mean, they managed to bring the whole of the lame. It's, you know, they managed to bring the whole of the barricade and everything and to get a wall in the back of the plane house to put it in. So so why can't they do that for other shoes? You know, that's that's a shape. Where do you think the king's spits in? Within the leader Ecology. Here in Edinburgh, it's hugely missed. At the moment, very much. There's the Lyceum does. plays. They're producing theatre when they always have been, and they've done some fabulous stuff over the years, and they've done some rest fabulous stuff over the years, but that happens in lots of theatres. on. Then there's the king's, which is the next sort of biggest and does please and things. And then there's the festival Theatre here, which is it. Make still Call it the Empire. I'm sorry. I used to work in the book shop across the road. So it was the empire then. So it'll always be the empire. But it was a bingo hall for a long time, and it's echoey, and I suppose, because it doesn't have as much carpet in the auditorium, they it can be a bit sort of echo way. But then maybe that's better for the acoustic, for the out to actors and performers I don't know on. Then there is the playhouse, which was built as the cinema and again is huge. But everything is miles from the stage, so the intimacy of the king's, I think, is really, really important. It's the middle ground. because you've got the Churchill a swell, but that's mainly for parameter use the lovely space. The other important thing about it is the fact the variety you're talking about a week long run. Most of the things that are coming to the sort of festival now tend to be long scale runs. Or certainly that's the case in the playhouse. You've got the Travellers, which just does the original works, which is a good kicking off place for a lot for you writers and stuff. that's important to have that. So you think what other outlets You can actually work. And ah, what? People don't realise how many sort of theatres there are in Edinburgh. I'm not the only one I haven't performed on this Travers. I think I think we could do with more. Sometimes I feel that, you know, for the size of the city, we could we could. I know that they don't fill things, but maybe, you know, there are other spaces. I mean, you've got studio now, which I think will be will be interesting. that's a nice space. apart from getting to the dressing room upstairs if you forget your key. Yes, I think. Yeah, we need We need the mixture because they're different sizes of productions and I think no having the King's. We've realised that there are plays that are going to big spaces that are too big and they don't really fit. I think come from away is going to be lost in the playhouse when it comes to suffer the sides of the king our daughter in law was doing with Peter James that was here. that again. You know, a murder mystery needs a small, cosy theatre. It's It's too, too big. You're too far away. You can't see people's faces. You need to be able to see people's faces to be able to see the promotions properly. It's one of the first things you learn as a lighting designer is that the darker is the clearer people have to speak? on bond. because people's eyes will always follow the brightest thing. or the fastest moving thing on stage, and you can use that for misdirection a lot. If you want to distract the audience from something that's happening on a particular area of stage, mean the likes of Mischief Theatre and whatever do all the time, because on magic shows did you do it because you could make an area brighter, and that makes the audience sort of turn their heads. It's one thing that amateurs always do is. They will always have people sitting around a table with a white tablecloth on it on you always say to them, Please, could it be something other than white? No, no. We have to have a white tablecloth on it. It just means that the audience see the tablecloth and nothing else. it's very, very frustrating. but yes, I think people need todo. You need to be able to see people and you need to be close to them on that subtle face, like is really important. So even though it the stage you get the feeling that the stage is dark, you need to be able to see enough. Otherwise you can't here, which is a strange thing. Yeah, the the other thing I was going to mention is that having been involved in seen plans and what salt coming up? The exciting ideas, having the community hub in the community space. and if you can get Children involved in the theatre in drama. on, get them to come in on. no look at a za playground, but as somewhere to explore. and learn about, so therefore, it's no longer. such a mystery, but you keep that little bit of mystery back. And two, Yeah, they're ready to move on to the next stage. Well, that's where your audiences for the future coming from. So you need you need to get the kids involved on bond. you know, not just do things that are for them, obviously, but you do things that make him think. I think having that space is going to be fantastic, as are, for example, doing the relaxed performances, which is great for the people who go to see them, but also means that those people who want to go to performance and not be distracted by by Children and noise they also have that option. so I think that's that's important. I have to say I'm rather horrified by the London business of having black only performances, which I think is a bit controversial. I think that's not a good thing. but that's my opinion. speaking of the kind of new offers. And I think they're changing. What? What would you hope to see at the Kings? And what do you hope it becomes? A future? I want to be busy. I wanted to be comfortable. I wanted to be open all day and I want no sweets and in sweetie wrappers, upstairs or boxes. In fact, people no need to have food in the auditorium. It'll that really annoys me. People treat the theatre like they're in their own Citigroup, and I think it needs to be that little bit different. And it's it's not the cinema. Cinemas can boost the the side level to cover all that. But I think, you know, surely people can manage for a couple of hours without stuffing themselves with something to eat or drink. No. Yeah, and e have to say when when my my great aunt's my wonderful great aunt's real Enver, Great odds said they used to go and see a partner at the King's, the big long operas. And they said that at the interval they used to have starched white cloths were put along the front of the balconies and people brought out there. They're picnics and whatever, because they would have a long because the show was like nine hours or something. You know, for the opera, it used to have either a 45 minute or hour interval, so people used to bring their picnic hamper on. But she said, the all these white dots this used to be put in long the front of the rules, you know, starched white things, and people would get out their picnic. but That's quite amazing on Bond. You know, I think I've only once sat in a box at the Kings and it was the second one's up. So the middle roll on Miss the stage box, it was nears the stage, and I absolutely loved that. I couldn't see half the show. I didn't care. I could see what was going on backstage, which was as exciting, if not more so. even a 10 year old. And that was a performance of the Pirates of Penzance by an amateur company. So possibly the Edinburgh G and s, I don't know, because I was very young at the time. I do remember that the lady who was playing Mabel comes in with a big She comes in with this huge high note right at the beginning. She's off stage on she comes sweeping in and she hits this high note only she didn't at the whole audience when. there is this this sharp intake of breath because she was somewhat flat and that was I've never forgotten that either. But just being able to see into the wings was magical, absolutely magical. going on backstage tours with magical, always loved that. one of the first place I ever saw. When I was about eight or nine, my parents took me to see Oliver Goldsmith she stoops to conquer. on. Amazingly, the following night it was on the television as a play. completely different production. Andre. Apparently, according to my father, I spent the whole of watching the television, one going well, that's different. And that's difference, and that's not a screwed. And they were better doing that last night or whatever. And he said, This is the beginning of Harry. It's career is the theatre critic He said No, that was I was nine or something at the time and he's absolutely right. It's very easy when you've done a lot of theatre, even as an amateur, to get quite critical of what you see on because you know how certain things were done. Sometimes on band you could say, Well, that could be better and I could have been done differently. Or, you know, that person was in the shadow or you see my husband, Andy, here when he was on stage, he hated life, so if there was, if there was a dark patch on the stage, he would find it. too bright. It's too bright, you know, if you're if you're there and you're scrunching your eyes up because you have somebody throwing a follow spot straight into your face, you No, you tend to do that. But I do remember one night in the King's, there was a particularly long lighting Get up on some arrangement between Andrew Wilson, Lighting design on operator on the King's People meant that we were there till about three o'clock in the morning. I? was just the guy on stage door. on. Basically, it was me standing on the stage, getting blasted with these lights. saying, Okay. Can you see the filament? And I'm going? I don't know, Conceive four. It's like just so many. lights getting done, but it was mainly just to get a Jesus. Well, because if you couldn't get lightened done that night, then there wouldn't have been anything for the dress for hours. People, people forget that, you know, cast. particularly nanometer world, have maybe three months to rehearse. The technicians get maybe four hours. on. Do you know they're all going over with Castro? Go. Yeah, we want to rehearse this. We want to do this bit and we want to do that. But on as a tech technical person, you have to say you've had your turn. This is our slot. This is the only slot we have. You've had months for her step. If you haven't got it right now, you probably never will. But we need to get this right and we need to do it now because it's the only time that we have on D. We used to have beautiful coverage over the stage and then there would be a sort of one patch. I'm used to say it's all right. That's Andy's s o the bit. That's not Let me see those Alright, that that'll be Andy's you would deliberately put me on stage to find out for the spot wars missed. I'm not even That was in the King's. They knew all about it as well. It was like So how do you see, or how do you hope Amateur theatre grows or changes in the coming years? Amateur Theatre needs to do its kind of split now into two different levels. I think they're the old companies who were still doing what we would call church hall drama on, Although people who are in the amateur world, they go to the theatre, they love the theatre, and then they put on their own productions on they can. They can't see the difference. And you say to them, Can you really not see how theatre has moved on? How the technology has moved on, how the skill has moved on from you. Wearing copious amounts of stage makeup and a badly painted set, you you go to the theatre. How can you not tell the difference? So they're the ones who have embraced it and moved on, and they're the ones who were still stuck doing what they would have done in the fifties and sixties. but I think that evolves with each generation. I I think, more importantly, no is. Everybody just seems to want musicals. All the good drama is vanishing. all of the musicals have definitely over taken, have over. Taken on, it's it's mainly because people want the glitz, the glam on, but unfortunately, in some cases, when you go to shows, you're getting folk next to you singing along. which is a real. it's a bugbear. the one of the only times I've heard. anything like it. Work was at the King's in Glasgow. It was me, my girl on the minute the over tour started playing. the whole audience started singing along to the over tour the minute it started. nothing. They just sang along to the tunes in the overture. but no on the actual performance. But there's a big difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow. You wouldn't have that in Edinburgh. Toffee nosed but state We were in the movies. Yes, I think you know. You go to see the show. You don't go to be distracted by people round about whether that's because you've got cramp in your leg because you haven't got enough room or you've got somebody kicking the seat behind you. these things happen, you know, But it can be annoying. but a really good place. Such a thing. I mean, we've We've seen some crackers Canterbury Tales with Brian Glover years ago. they did the tails. I don't know whether it's true or not, but they used to go round the audience at the beginning on taking a name out of a hat and they would do that Canterbury tail and then they'd say, Right, Which one are we going to do next? Well, from I'm the must have crypt it so that they always did them in the same order. Because otherwise for the lighting designer be an absolute nightmare, not knowing what's coming next. But again, I mean, they were in the audience. They were, you know? I mean, there was all sorts going on that night and there were people, you know, there were people that came back from the bar and they sort of way he's laid back from the bar. You know, you should have made You should have got your deserving. All that row now coming in. You know we'll never be late back from the bar again. I tell you to fight. But again, that was something that we hadn't really thought that we would bother with. And we went to see it. It wasn't hugely. There were hundreds of people there, but it was absolutely brilliant. It was so well done. And that was I can't remember where that was from. I know Brian Glover was in. He's the ex wrestler who became an actor. on days. He was extremely good. So sometimes you just get a little gem. You just you go to something, You they will be all right, I suppose, and it's fabulous. But there's nothing like it when that happens. It's just such an experience. You know, sometimes you go to things that were really, really hyped up on their big disappointment. And then you go to things that you know, you've barely heard of. Somebody said, Do you want I've got a spare ticket? You want to come? You think, God, it's a wooden stake like I really want to go out. Well, all right, I'll go on. It's fabulous and it just depends. You know, something just catches the moment on bond. Suddenly everybody's on their feet at the end and, you know Sometimes you expect a big star to be wonderful on there. No, particularly. And then you get the whole group of unknowns and, you know, it just works. there was a wonderful Jekyll and Hyde. it was on. Oh, I forgot his name Now Different mount. It'll come back to me. but it was. You thought it was going to be all nice and pleasant on very sort of like stating whatever On then, the whole thing just began to turn and twist in the language became dark current follow. right. so he is going on. It was just an absolute gem and it was also partly more factually correct. But it's nice because you get things, you know. You got to know carriage, Go to Shakespeare. You go to, you know, have an eight board you go to. you know all sorts of people you've never heard of. And there's just such a mix. Brassed Off was brilliant. The Pittman painters, which I knew nothing about, was was fabulous. remember Daniels? Yes. Yes, I've seen him on stage with them. They're such there is a magic to having that variety and having that surprise have, yes, show that you just wouldn't expect. And maybe you wouldn't see in another venue. You wouldn't see. It had a different time. Eric could just be totally by chance. But imprint on. You can see a show of 30 years ago and think it were brilliant. It was fabulously wonderful. And you go and see again. You think? What? which which did happen with, I think that's the beauty of a lot of them when you've got so many. you've got so many different possibilities of shows being interpreted. listen to how it works differently, and sometimes that can be what it needs. Just that little tweak, a different. sort of ankle rather than keeping the same set and everything that everybody had in mind. sometimes you need to move on. But you do hope that somewhere there is an archive volleys, performances kept somewhere. on the lot of them, I hope now are kept on on film or or whatever you know, because it would be. Well, considering the amount of video feedback and whatever that you've got going on, you must get a good But you're saying about reinterpretation. I mean, we saw that midsummer night's dream here. It was fabulous, and we thought it can't be beaten on. Then we saw another version, which was also a Royal Shakespeare Company version in Stratford, where they played the rude mechanicals play absolutely straight. and it was breathtakingly moving. So the actor playing Frisbee Ryan Gauge Yeah, instead of being this idiot in a woman's dress, suddenly becomes a woman sobbing for her dead lover, and there wasn't. a murmur in the audience. You could have heard the proverbial pin drop. It was just so different and they just turned the whole thing on its head and suddenly nobody was breathing. you know, I was just on bats with the play That's 400 years old, you know? And I have never seen that done before. Maybe it has been done before. I don't know, but it was just completely different. And it just took my breath away. I just thought Wow. So I think a lot of plays air open to interpretation on DTH. Things like the eight board will have their time again. At the moment they're dated, but they will eventually become period on that will. We'll work on Day will become funny again because people will think, well, how silly worthy in that in those days, Rather than be offended by that, which they are moment on, I'm sure that happened with the likes of Noel Coward. I mean, Gilbert in Solomon's got slightly fashion at the moment it will come back. on. You know, Andrew Lloyd Webber will go out of date and then we'll come back on. You may end up having Lloyd Webber societies in the future where you have Gilbert and Sullivan Society is now. but it's it's strange. I mean, there are so many other forms of entertainment now. People have games, they have everything on their phones. They have, you know, everything so immediate. and I hope that, you know, they said radio would kill theatre. Well, it didn't. They said television would kill theatre. Well, it didn't. So I'm just hoping that theatre will still managed to survive through all this because it's it's just It's such an immediate and emotional experience and you get so absorbed in it in a way that you probably don't with a film or or something like that. I mean, the most amazing place that I've seen sometimes are ones that don't get an immediate a round of applause at the end because people go, there's a pose and then people go. Oh, well, and they start to applaud. But they're so lost in the moment. They're so involved in what they've seen that they haven't quite realised that it's come to an end. They're they're they're so engaged in what they're seeing and feeling and absorbed in that. They just need that moment to come back to reality. I think that's you just don't get that unless it's live theirs. we went down to see Hamlet. David Tennant on bond. We had booked tickets for the last performance in the evening. on. He'd been out of it for most of the run with he put his back out on. Then we heard you know that you may not be playing the part, but we flew down and we got stuck on the runway. Edinburgh Airport in the fog. We didn't know if we were going to get away or if that was going to be it. We got there by the skin of our teeth. with our then 11 year olds on sudden. Who'd he just loved? Doctor? Who? And he said, I want to see it. So that's why we did it. Got the tickets. sat down, that was like the third role. in the stalls. behind him. There was Catherine T sitting and she was about four rows in the back. So he was You know that. Whatever on then you just sat there. and he just watched the whole thing and it was fought about. It's about. Well, it's quite long, actually. I think it was nearly for getting for four. didn't you didn't move double time you jump. Which window was a thunderclap, but then a flash or a flash and then the clap. But he was absolutely absorbed. And that's 11 year old, you know, watching a Shakespeare for the for. Well, not the first time because he had seen a Midsummer Night's dream, but that one. He just was mesmerised by the whole thing on. That was very clever, because this has nothing to do with the Kings. But the floor was a kind of mirror perspex. And for the first scene, when thes soldiers meet Hamlets, the ghost of Parliament's father, there were three characters on stage and two of them were holding. torches in electric torches. Battery operated torches. Now there was no lighting. But you never missed a single person because they were using the torches to bounce the light of the floor onto the face of the person who was speaking on. There were two torches and there were three characters and you never missed anything. It was so cleverly done. So the actors, they're having to remember their lives. They're having to move, and they have it to remember what angle they need to shine the torch out on the floor so that the light mirrors up and hits the face of the other person who's on stage on Git was absolutely amazing, you know, and again, he was just completely absorbed in the whole thing. So that's an 11 year old. So 11 year olds boys can like Shakespeare if they've got the right person behind it that they know, but he he wasn't going to go and wait in a queue. You said there's too many people outside but they had organised it in such a way that everybody would get seen. So he came out and signs do not on that one. He didn't that was so much to do when we went down a couple of years. He's going on to the Hamlet programme we had to send away because the proper rats who were pushing the kids out the week. because it was the last night on. A lovely girl came up who was in the auditorium and she'd seen the play and she was waiting as well. And she said, Tell your little boy not to worry. She said, Get hold of David Google and get hold of his agent. Send the programme to his agent and he'll sign it for him And he did. We sent a letter saying he got pushed out of the way by perhaps we had to go and get the tree because it was going to be the last train back to where we were staying. on. So we sent the programme to his agent, explained what had happened and said, You know, that was devastated, Not me. Meet David Tennant at the end. But we had to get the train on. The paparazzi were pushing all the goods out and he just couldn't get there on git came back. Signed to Jack Loved David Tennant and Eastern You still got it. And then when we went to see much you do a couple of years later, he actually got to meet. Catherine T. Was in that well, so you got to see them both. It's really, I think it's really amazing to see just the amount of interaction. I think there is such a human experience from getting an autograph. You know, seeing your hero to having that first magical experience to having that pause, having that moment at the end where, yeah, you just have your breath taken away. And I think I've got two autographs that go from the lycee of way back way, way back on. One of them was from a production of Charley's aunt. On it was tested Pete Jones, who was in it. Now, she said, I didn't know you recognise me without my wig because she was a big thing. She must have been about 18 at the time. Phillip Franks was another one. Who trained of the lice? Well, I mean, he never dreamed us a zone active formally, but he was at the Lyceum again, straight out of university, 1819. Martin Clunes was there and lots of people. Tom Conti started off with the life and your heart. Yeah, but we've We've seen some amazing people at Kings as well. You know, who've grown over the years on bond, you know? I mean, it's it's just been incredible. There's been a theme throughout this interview, which has just been talking about faces. Talk about expression. So it's the eggs so personal about that. I just I love the absolute intimacy and connection. It's amazing to see the different experiences as well and see how they really all come together to make this one massive. what you were talking about. Experiences on famous people on bond, knowing faces of meeting them. nine times out of 10. They were absolutely fabulous if you wanted to go on to meet them at the stage door, but there was production of Joseph in the King's on guy. I maybe shouldn't see the Person's Day because I don't think you're with us anymore. But this thing man came down to the stage door and said, Who's thrown all of these fliers away? I pay a lot of money to get these made. Why? Why are you throwing them all away? I'm just so right. Okay. Don't want to go near him to go away, you know, I mean, that was the front of the whole group of people. I came with all the teeth in this way. Well, I think I think that also has, like, you just get a lot of characters on. you know, they come out, they done it. Sure, whatever. But you know, one who was absolutely lovely to Jack was well, too, in fact, Jason Manford, Ross Noble, when they did. the producers and absolutely great O'Meara at the King's. She was with Gary. Well, my lady found no Lady Windermere Sand always called it. on the other. on. She spent plenty of time, you know, because I thought all she'll probably be. really mean the other one, but she was all wrapped up in a sort of four course. on Do you thought of probably waiting to get picked up? Whatever. No, I think they were just going next door to the bar. into the into bed. It's and we said to Gary, Will not We really missed showstoppers because he used to have this wonderful show on the television where they did songs from the shows and he was absolutely stunning. And on he was just a delightful chat. Well, I said, we really miss show stoppers, and that was him for about 15 minutes. results. So some people, they're absolutely delightful. And other people, you know, if they come out of the theatre wheeling their suitcase looking as if they've just arrived, You know, they they came straight from the previous venue. They've done a show on there now, off to find their digs. You don't interrupt. You know, that's fine. I think we're all human. I'll go. And I think when you're on stage, you're putting in your best effort. And I think it's an audience member. You're also putting in your best energy, so well, at this time, I think I'm going to have to wrap this up. But this is a wonderful interview. Thank you so much for your time. We're going to stop recording at 18. 40 on will conclude this interview for the King's Leader Heritage Project. |
